Sérgio, being a Brazilian church with services and programs in Portuguese, how does this language issue work?
Our church was founded by Brazilians 25 years ago, but it has ceased to be a Brazilian church fundamentally because we live in a third generation of immigrant children who began building it.
When I arrived there was no regular worship service in English, it was a church that thought a lot about Brazilians even though it had generations of American children, because even if their son was born in the United States, being an American he has the Brazilian culture because of his parents.
However, their relationships are all American, so his first language is English, and I can't help but live the church experience without remembering those.
On the other hand, we cannot only think of Brazilians since we are in a large capital, in a large state next to New York that is a reference worldwide, and we have people of all languages in our region.
In 2015, we added to our name the Church of the city, which is our city's church, to show that we are local, that we belong to the people, that as an agent church wants to reach out to our neighbors.
So our programs, Friday we have regular worship for teenagers and young people in English and on Sundays we have worship in Portuguese and, once a month, because we are transitioning culture, we have the full celebration in English, even so that we can reach the audience that is around us.
What is the profile of the people? Are they Brazilian, North American, or other nationalities?
Because it is a church that was founded by Brazilians, the vast majority are Brazilians, and we also have Portuguese-speaking ones who are Portuguese. We have Spanish-speaking people from the most diverse parts of the world, we have Argentines, Venezuelans, Cubans, and Americans.
Not only are they the children of immigrants, but they are Americans who have arrived in our Christian community and are living the church with us, especially because of small groups.
What was it like to convey to members that the church would “open its doors” to other ethnicities?
When I arrived there was this neighborhood profile of people, of “I founded this here for myself, to live the experience for myself and for mine”. But the church is very affectionate, it's very dear.
When they invited me, it was the first question I asked myself, “God what does a 21-year-old church want with a guy like me who was, at the time, 30 years old?”
God was very clear to me that the church wanted something that she didn't know exactly what it was, but staying in the same place was unacceptable.
To be very honest, the inclusion of Church Of The City, the change of the logo, the change of the church's visual identity was sensitive because since I arrived I started preaching about our mission, about our going and our going is not for us, it's not for our way, it's not for our language, it's for the whole world.
And what world is that? The world is all around us, we can't be in the United States with our doors closed what if the American, or someone who speaks English or Spanish, wants to arrive? You're not going to find shelter, you're not going to find a house...?
Then the church became pregnant with this and assimilated it with great joy, and today what we experience is a result of what God placed in our hearts even as a church.
And is that what you described - multicultural character, change, transformation - a characteristic that you created, or is it something that also happens in other Brazilian churches?
The answer to this question has a premise: All I express here are views that I have of relations here and I am very recent here in the United States. 3 and a half years is too little for me to understand a church culture that has been here for 3 generations.
That said, what I feel is quite the opposite. There is a sense of possession, that I am Brazilian and I am going to live for Brazilians.
I heard this here already, in my community, as soon as I arrived: “If Hispanics, if people who speak Spanish want a church they should look for a church that speaks Spanish.”
I believe that, as we call it here, if these ethnic churches don't transition to a multicultural, multilingual place, even if it's uncomfortable for some, if they don't, the churches will die.
How am I going to reach out to my neighbor, who is an American, and preach the gospel to him? Tell him about Jesus? Do I intentionally relate to him?
Then the guy loves me, the guy will connect with me and when he knows what I live for, where what I live comes from, I say this: “Oh, it's from my Christian experience and I strengthen this in a Christian community”. Then he says “I want to go with you!” So I'm going to say: “No, you're not going with me because you only speak Portuguese”. That doesn't get into my head!
And on the other hand, the second aspect is: we are going to die, the first generation is going to die, the second generation is going to die, what about the children? They're going to be left without a Christian community or going to an American church.
And the way we like to church, our Latin warmth, my God, we have everything to transform the United States in the name of Jesus.
Do you believe that your perception has to do with the fact that they are in the cell-group model?
The cell-based church model met my heart with God, but the cell-group model is the fruit of a nuisance, the fruit of a cry, it's the fruit of an anguish because we are not in fact a church that Jesus stipulated for us to be.
And the cell group model here in the United States has characteristics similar to those in Brazil. But I believe that it is not very strong like what happens in Brazil, especially since it lacks our spice. We have a special feeling of reaching out to people. What we are learning here is how to deal with this multiculture.
Because the American is closed, he needs his space. So how do you live in a cell group in a culture where people don't want to open their homes?
For example, we are learning what is already being done in Brazil, which is having a relationship first. And there's no way, once the person loves me, after the person has my heart and I have the person's heart, they go wherever I go.
So, it's first in my relationship, then it's anywhere, then that anywhere that is a place of edification and growth and of church in the cell group.
Something that happens in Brazil is the mutual relationship between pastors. We have the City Church, by Pr. Carlito Paes, with the Inspire Network, has the Central DNA of Pr Paulo Mazoni and several others.
Sérgio, are there projects in the United States in this regard? That connection between the pastors, that support for the churches?
Yes and no. Not institutionally. Me, Sérgio, 3 and a half years here, no. I don't know a place where we found institutional support and support, I would say. Even if there are institutions for that.
Understand well, there are institutions for that, but I don't feel that support in a way that shepherds.
But there are mutual concerns between pastor partners, and I have some partners here close to me that we don't have the reserve to talk about the heart.
Once again, I'm being very cautious to say what I feel because it's my way of thinking.
Ethnic churches, like mine, people come and then here they are either already pastors, or they become pastors, or they call themselves pastors and start a job and start working in a church. Because of this, my feeling is that the people who belong to his church are as if they were cattle owned by that pastor.
There's a thing that I say is terrible, not to say completely diabolic, where people don't connect out of fear of each other, which is absurd. So I don't feel like there's that cooperation.
However, I need to add two points that I think are relevant.
First, I don't know if people will be able to scale this up, but the culture here, even though we are Brazilians, is a culture of a gigantic rush, the movement here is faster. Here the hours pass much faster, especially in winter, it is a period of very gray, of very cold associated with sadness and seclusion into the house.
So maybe because of the culture, and I'm not saying that I agree and that it's good, but because of the culture I also think that there's such isolation because of work.
Second, I receive support, coaching, counseling, counseling, pastoring, from my partners in Brazil, from those churches you mentioned. Paulo Mazoni was the great guy who influenced me, influences me and will influence me, in the simple way of living the simple church, in the experience in cell groups he was a great motivator, he has been here at church twice and he is a guy whose call he helps me to talk and speak.
Pastor Carlito too, who is a friend, partner, so until I find this type of partnership here, to live the cellular experience in this type of church that we live in, I am turning to loved ones from Brazil.
Do you notice any difference between what people are looking for when they attend a Sunday service, your church and what you saw in your experience in Brazil?
I'm thinking about Brazilian or Portuguese-speaking, right? So fundamentally, people come here and seek in a Christian community, whether through the cell group or the celebrations of major services, the feeling of family. Not in the sense of “Oh what a wonderful little thing, oh how delicious”. It's family to her, she wants to have a place to hang out, she wants to have a place where she goes to speak her language.
Not in the sense that I would like it to be, in the sense of “Oh, come here, become a family and let's add everyone, me to you and you to me”, so it's one serving the other. The church becomes a tool for filling the void, right?
Isn't God the main reason?
No, no, not a priore. However, this motivation, I usually say to everyone here, “No matter what motivation a person turns to a cell group or attends the main service, let's take advantage of that motivation to make the name of God known”.
So, if the person comes because they need shelter, which I'm going to give them, I'm going to give them shelter, I'll immediately shelter them, they need a house, we're going to help them rent an apartment, they need clothes, we'll give them clothes, they need cold clothes, they need a stroller for the baby, they need a car to buy, we'll help with all of this, so that the name of God is known, but while we're doing this, we're teaching who God is.
Many times we don't even use the biblical text itself, many times we don't even use a catchphrase, no. It is our love that is showing her how much we love without anything in return, because tomorrow she will put herself in that same place and will have the opportunity to serve as well. And that is a motto of our church: hospitality.
It's a group of imperfect people looking at the cross. We are moving towards the cross every day and because of this movement we are being better as humans, as Christians, as people. We took advantage of this to show Jesus to these people.
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